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Secrets of BSG

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Started 1 year ago by zina
Latest reply from marcuslaw

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zina
Member

I created this thread for general questions about SBSG.

Posted 1 year ago #
CarleighS
Member

I just want ScFi to hurry it up already...I'm in BSG withdrawal. *sigh*

I'll look/listen for y'all then. In the meantime...I probably will go back-listen to the "Secrets of" podcasts. Btw---thanks for the Dr. Horrible reference...my fifteen year old & I had a lot of fun playing with that.

CarleighS (& Claire)

Posted 1 year ago #
zina
Member

Thanks, Carleigh. Yeah, we are kind of in a slump. We had had crisis after crisis at home (fortunately not too bad), but we hope to record after Fr. Roderick gets back from his Thanksgiving trip to GA.

Posted 11 months ago #
CarleighS
Member

Yea!!! I'll get caught up and can't wait to hear y'all back on. You can start speculating now about January, right???? Please....???? hee hee hee
Glad y'al are getting okay. Crises are just the pits.

Carleigh

Posted 11 months ago #
JeffLiss
Member

SBSG #10 is finished and should be posted on sqpn.com soon. Sorry for the long delay again. We're looking forward to the show's return in January along with everyone else; it will be interesting to see what happens in February, though, when we'll have our hands full with the new baby! Zina and I will try to keep a close eye on this forum to respond to any of your questions or comments.

Jeff

Posted 11 months ago #
zina
Member

SBSG #11 was recorded on Thursday, but I didn't have time to put all the bumpers or edit it. As it stands with a little editing and no bumpers - it is more than 1 hour long. We only talk about the webisodes and classical mythological themes.

SBSG #12 will be about the premiere, "Once a Great Notion," which was very interesting. Yes, apparently they revealed who the 12th Cylon is. And I think it defuses the whole final Cylon thing so that we can focus on what really matters which is what is Earth, who are the Cylons really, what happened to the 13th colony, what is the fate of the human race, and what is the meaning of Starbuck.

Very interesting. I don't think I want to post spoilers for the people who have to wait for Hulu, but I hope we can record #12 soon.

Posted 10 months ago #
CarleighS
Member

You're recording number 12, with the identiry of the 12th...you could have a whole twelve motif going on there...

Spoiler avoidance is so so so so hard.

So, I'll just shsh until hulu folks have a chance to catch up, but can't wait to hear what the JeffnZina team are thinking.

Yay!!! We're back in bizness!!! BSG is back.

Posted 10 months ago #
WilliamWeb
Member

Hi Jeff and Tina.
When do you think episode #11 will be posted to iTunes? Yesterday's show was great and is now on hulu (http://www.hulu.com/watch/53330/battlestar-galactica-sometimes-a-great-notion.) I'm looking forward to discussing it here and hearing what you think!

Posted 10 months ago #
RepCom1140
Member

I'm anticipating the gunfight that was in the promo...but that's just me.
Does Roslin lose her mental processes, and who are fighting whom?
(I've only seen the last 5 episodes and am picking up what I can of the story, having never followed BSG before.)

Posted 10 months ago #
JeffLiss
Member

SBSG#11 is complete and has been sent into the innertubes to be posted on SQPN.com and iTunes. It was recorded on the Wednesday before the Friday premiere, so it doesn't contain any discussion of the most recent 'revelations.' We'll try to move quickly (sometime in the next couple days) to record SBSG #12, in which we'll discuss the events of "Sometimes a Great Notion." Soon as I get a chance, I will post some of our thoughts here to this forum as well.

Posted 10 months ago #
JeffLiss
Member

///SPOILER ALERT: DON'T READ UNLESS YOU'VE ALREADY SEEN "SOMETIMES A GREAT NOTION"\\\

OK...here's some of what I'm working on. The line spoken by Ellen Tigh at the very end is interesting. She seems to have anticipated this event "It's okay; everything is in place. We'll be reborn again...together."

There are a number of things interesting about that line, but three come immediately to mind:

1.) Everything is in place. This suggests preparation -- as if the holocaust was forseen, or perhaps the final five were the agents of it -- just as the Cylons were the agents of the apocalypse on the Colonies. Think about it: two Cylons living on Caprica might have spoken similar words to each other as the bombs went off in the miniseries: "Don't worry, we'll be fine. All we have to do is download."

2.) Second, she doesn't say downloaded or resurrected. She says "re-born." This could simply be poetic license on the part of the writers, or it could mean that the Final Five utilize a different mechanism of immortality than the first seven models. Where as the first 7 are 'resurrected,' the Final 5 are reincarnated. That is, there can be only one 'Ellen Tigh' consciousness at a time. When she dies, she must return to the womb and be born again as a child. Zina thinks this is the case, and that it's possible the baby Caprica Six is carrying is the reincarnation of Ellen Tigh. It would explain why Tigh sees Six and Ellen at the same time, switching back and forth. Both beings are present in that same person -- Caprica and the child she carries, which is Ellen waiting to be re-born. We never get an actual confirmation that Saul Tigh is the father of Caprica Six's baby or even that they actually had some kind of physical relationship. Tigh's response to the accusation is dumbfounded silence.

3.) "again." This isn't the first time they've been re-born. This may not be their first trip through the Pythian cycle. Were the Saul and Ellen Tigh we see in flashback scientists of some kind who had worked out a path to reincarnation. Or, were they -- are the final five -- some kind of priestly caste among the Cylons. Perhaps Saul and Ellen are priest and oracle, like the parents of Galen Tyrol. For that matter, perhaps they *are* the parents of Tyrol, or at least in some way the progenitors of the Tyrol consciousness.

It's all very interesting, and though Ellen Tigh was not my prediction (and would not have been my choice) for the 12th Cylon, I'm perfectly willing to go along for the ride.

Posted 10 months ago #
JeffLiss
Member

And the biggest question of all: why do I always forget to use question marks????

Posted 10 months ago #
aleighanne
Member

SPOILERS FOR EP 4.13
Jeff
I agree there is a different mechanism for the final five that makes them special or different. Here is what I am thinking after this episode:
There is this giant cycle that goes on. The planet they found "Earth" was populated by Cylons 2000 years ago. At that time (2000 years ago) there was a holocaust. My theories are:
A. These human looking cylons thought they were human and built "cylons"-hence the different looking centerions found in the dirt. These rose up and nuked the human cylons 2000 years ago.
B. The humans left for a human homeworld. Then 40 years later they nuked their humaniod cylon masters.
2000 years later the cycle starts over this time the humans are in charge and they get nuked by their "creation."
I also have a C. theory but I think I am going to toss it. The planet "earth" was nuked by the significant seven cylons.
All in all a good episode and why I watch the show!
Hulu has the episode with commentary by RDM BTW.

Posted 10 months ago #
aleighanne
Member

Spoilers!!!

Oh I think Saul was a banker. That sure looked like a bank with vaults to me in the flashback. Also do you think its possible that 6 Tigh impregnated is Ellen who died on New Caprica? Or that the six line is related to Ellen's? Thus Saul's projecting?

Posted 10 months ago #
zina
Member

Just to clarify, I believe Saul is not the father of the Caprica 6 baby. I think people are just assuming that. He seemed really surprised when Bill Adama accused him of impregnating the 6 in the brig. I believe he sees Ellen in the 6 because Ellen's consciousness is in the 6 in the form of the baby that she is carrying.

Perhaps I think this way because I am 8 month pregnant, and there is a really kicky little girl in me. Ellen Tigh would strike me as a very active baby in the womb. I dunno.

Posted 10 months ago #
CarleighS
Member

Okay, spoilers, too...

My thoughts...writers who are well aware of the successes of shows like Lost and that show with the spy girl in it...agh can't remember the series, but twisty turny show Alias, that's it are writing our BSG.

Integrity to the book may be out the window for the final ten episodes.

I keep coming back to Dualla and the jacks. All the other cylons touched something resonant and had memory-flood effects. Dualla committed suicide for a reason and it started with the jacks. The scene with the picture of her and Gaeta and then the touching of the jacks in the final sequence are going to have meaning.

If she's a "new" variety of cylon and Pythia had it partly right and totally wrong (as mythologies often do), perhaps when Dualla is reincarnated/downloaded there will be a new interpretation of "this has happened before," etc.

Plus...we've yet to contend with Starbuck.

That was a brand spanking new viper and Starbuck that were stripped out of time and place and Leoben knew about it somehow.

Where's the mastermind of the confusion?

How are they gonna write themselves out of this mess with some integrity?

I love this show. I can't wait to find out.

There's my two cents of totally out there thinking.

Laters all,
Carleigh (aka Ms C)

Posted 10 months ago #
JeffLiss
Member

Right now, the biggest thing I'm chewing on is the equally startling (though not entirely unexpected) revelation re: Starbuck. Who...or what...is she? Personally, I'm focusing on the link between Starbuck and Aurora. I think we can reasonably say that Aurora was probably the leader of the 13th tribe (the Cylons) when they departed Kobol. We know that Aurora is linked with Starbuck because of the oracle she visits who gives her the statue of the winged goddess. Starbuck then gives the statue to Adama to use as the masthead of his wooden ship. The symbolism is clear: the goddess of the dawn, who shines a light unto their path, will lead Adama's ship toward Earth. This could mean that Starbuck is a reincarnation or avatar of one of the original Lords of Kobol.

But it's also interesting that Starbuck doesn't reach Earth alive after the events of Maelstrom, when her Viper explodes in the storm -- only her body does. In order for her to physically arrive on Earth, she must be reborn. She must, as 'Head Leoben' encourages her, cross through the door that leads to the space between life and death. In this sense, 'Maelstrom' is at least partially reminiscent of the Passion of Christ -- she must suffer death before she can be resurrected. When Starbuck arrives with the fleet, it's not her old self. She has been reborn in a new existence (complete with a pristine Viper, itself reminiscent of the dazzling white robes of the risen Christ). She is a new Starbuck.

So what does that make her? What does that make Aurora? Well, it could be that Aurora, when she led the 13th tribe away from Kobol, was their generation's instance of the 'dying leader' -- one who will not live to see the Promised Land (again, consistent with Moses in the Book of Exodus and with the Mormon Joseph Smith). When the original Cylons arrived on their 'Earth,' they landed carrying the body of Aurora and built the Temple of Aurora in her memory. In the same way, when the Colonists arrive at *their* Earth, they will be carrying the body of Laura Roslin, who the Scrolls of Pythia say will not live to see earth. Who knows; maybe they'll even build a memorial of some kind.

[The Aurora-Roslin-Starbuck thing isn't an exact fit, which is why I say I'm still chewing on it. Zina's also got some thoughts on Starbuck's apparent means of resurrection and how it differs from that of both the 7 and the 5.]

So, Earth may not be so much a place as a destination (I think I've said that before in an SBSG episode). Every turn of the Pythian cycle, every generation that goes through they cycle of war-exile-rebirth, may find its own Earth waiting for them at the end of their journey.

Posted 10 months ago #
WilliamWeb
Member

I think the Leoben look alike is really a "Being of Light" and this energy-based life form is responsible for the literal resurrection of Starbuck into what is arguably a glorified body to some extent. The "Leoben" when asked "If that is me, who am I?" simply backs away and appears to glow. That is consistent with a Being of Light (like Ibliss in the original BSG). Not sure if there will be some sort of crystal ship for these Beings of Light but I am guessing not since that is pretty hokey anyway and Ron Moore would probably not have it.

Posted 10 months ago #
aleighanne
Member

I think Dee's connection with the jacks is this: if you notice when Lee is looking through the box of Dee's belongings there is a little bag that he turns and jacks come out. These do not look like the ones she picked up on "earth" b/c they look cleaner, nicer, non nuked and in a bag etc. I think she had some sort of realization these people were like her and the others on the colonies. Seeing the jacks on the planet jolted her b/c for some reason jacks was important to her if she had some in her bunk on the Galactica. I think Dee just lost hope. On the way up to the Galactica she is saying Keep it together don't lose it or similar to that (I Had closed captionining on so I would not miss anything. ) She wanted to go out happy to block out the devestation of what she saw on "Earth". She has spent what a few years in space now with this dream and prophecy that they would find Earth and life would be wonderful. Well they found "earth" (I don't think the Earth they are looking for myself) and it was nuked. This was too much for her and the only way out that she saw was to kill herself after surrounding herself with happy memories.

Posted 10 months ago #
WilliamWeb
Member

I agree Leigh Anne. I do not think the suicide has multiple layers of meaning, indicates Cylon lineage, etc. The meaning is simply utter despair since she found getting to Earth to be her reason for living whereas other BSG characters had more of a focus on distractions like bars, sleeping around, religious fervor, etc. She had nothing to fall back on except Lee. Since her date was sweet but did not indicate a really new beginning, her reasons for living did disappear and as a consequence so did she. She followed the river to reference the story of Bill Adama.

Posted 10 months ago #
WilliamWeb
Member

"All this has happened before and it will happen again" is a description of the Eternal Recurrence of Nietzsche which is the most annoying aspect of the show. The cyclical view that preceded the linear view introduced by Augustine in The City of God. It does give the past extreme relevance and makes it actual prophecy.

The initial line of Scrolls of Pythia states an ancient astronaut theory. To keep the mythology of the scrolls intact the BSG people should seed our Earth and becomes the Atlantians.

I agree with you Jeff that there are 3 stages of War, Exodus and Rebirth.

The Beings of Light suggest the goal of the theory of the singularity as described at www.singularity.com.

Posted 10 months ago #
cprincipe
Member

I am taking a wait and see attitude, as I am feeling that there is something that does not seem right about Earth. I am wondering if what they have found is not really Earth. If they truly have found Earth, then my theory is that the five cylons created biological humans, the reverse of what the people of the 12 colonies did. Picking up on what William said, I think that the point of coming to Earth and finding it devastated, and seeing the turmoil into which it has thrown the crew, is that humanity needs to realize that it needs to live for its own purpose rather than a singular goal such as the new "Earth." Only when they will be able to make that realization and draw meaning out of their daily lives will they truly have a home.

Posted 10 months ago #
zina
Member

On the original series, Terra was a planet that was founded by stragglers from the 13th Tribe.

What if this Cylon Earth was not the true Earth but a place that was good enough to be Earth?

What if the rest of the 13th Tribe found their promised land in another star system? On another planet?

Adama is following a star, any star. <i>Gaeta, pick a star.</i> And perhaps that star will ultimately lead to their salvation?

Posted 10 months ago #
JeffLiss
Member

Hmmm...so are you saying they're on a Star Quest? Interesting...SQPN is the key to Earth!

Posted 10 months ago #
WilliamWeb
Member

Possible functions of the Temple of Aurora:
1. An intergalactic guidepost or pointer e.g. the Aurora Borealis.
2. Aurora is meant symbolically as "Dawn" meaning a place to seek spiritual enlightenment not to pray to Aurora as a god or goddess.
3. The temple is a tomb of a great spiritual as Jeff said much like St. Peters Basilica has the body of St. Peter.
4. Aurora is of the race of the Lords of Kobol and is honored her like the Temple of Athena. This also is akin to the star map function of the Temple of Athena (See # 1).

Posted 10 months ago #
CarleighS
Member

Someone on plurk or somewhere suggested that Earth was sort of ctrl alt del reboot copy, a back up plan of sorts if the unthinkable happened. That struck me as plausible: download human consiousnesses into cylon copies, limit the varieties to simplify the engineering, voila! the ark.

I couldn't get that idea out of my mind.

The first opener of this final season suggested to me that everyone was a cylon, of some kind, but that's not possible.

So, I'm reading everyone's thoughts and stuff, and hoping the writers have more sense than the marketing people can control and wreck.

(Friday's show was the genre I tend to fast forward through. I'm wanting plot, not character development so much, and I wish they write Roslin back into fully functioning person again) I have no patience, though. I liked watching all four seasons on DVD last summer. Then I could skip stuff and get the stuff I cared about.

Can't wait to see where this is headed though.

Posted 10 months ago #
MegAlfOCon
Member

I've been taking a class that discusses early Christian Gnostism and I've noticed some pretty significant parallels between basic Gnostic beliefs and this BSG series. The Gnostic’s allegory for creation was that the world was created from the unauthorized offspring of a divine being. The offspring “kidnapped” its parent (often referred to as Sophia) and now she is trapped in this world. There are pieces of her that exist within certain people and they are said to have “a spark of the divine” within them. Those “sparks of the divine” continue to be reborn until they are freed through knowledge given by the one true God. Knowledge which can not be attained through the mind or body because those were created by the offspring. Their belief was that Jesus was sent by the one True God to bestow that knowledge.

Looking at the BSG storyline, there does appear to be people who are “different” (or have “spark of the divine”), namely Gaius Baltar, Laura Roslin, Kara Thrace and Caprica Six that receive messages from the “Beings of Light”, who give them knowledge they could not have received through their minds or bodies. That knowledge helps them to grow in understanding of what must be done next so they can lead others to something better. It also connects with Saul and Ellen coming back as Saul and Ellen and with Starbuck seeing herself. There is also the parallel of two separate systems of the divine. The humans believed on a number of gods that parallel the Greek Gods, who are very human like but the Cyclons (and many of the humans) have now come to believe in that there is one God above the other gods, much like the Gnostic system of belief. I could probably elaborate more but the Superbowl is almost on

Posted 9 months ago #
JeffLiss
Member

I've created a web album with some of the screenshots from BSG we've discussed in our podcasts: http://picasaweb.google.com/monupics/SecretsOfBattlestarGalactica?feat=directlink

Posted 9 months ago #
WilliamWeb
Member

Hi Jeff and Zina.
How are things with you? I really enjoyed the SBSG PicassaWeb album you put together. I have missed the podcast. Hope things are going well with you and your child (Hera right? LOL).

Posted 9 months ago #
zina
Member

@WilliamWeb,

We are doing okay. Thanks for asking. SBSG #14 will cover both "The Oath" and "Blood on the Scales" I need to insert sound captures today (2/12) and then submit it for posting to SQPN.

We actually record the podcast well before it actually gets posted. We don't use really great podcasting software so we end up having to do a lot of editing after we record our audio (i.e. including music, bumpers, removing awkward silences, etc.).

If you want to see the raw footage you can go to uStream:
http://www.ustream.tv/channel/secrets-of-battlestar-galactica%3A-live-shows

We usually don't give a lot of heads up when we start the uStream because Jeff and I record our show when we have spare time, and we really don't know when time like that comes up.

Thanks for the positive feedback! It helps podcasters out because we pretty much do this stuff for free and for love the subject matter we cover. I hope we can make much deeper analysis after the show is over because by then we will have a better understanding of what the writers and producers wanted to say about philosophy, religion and humanity in this universe they created.

Posted 9 months ago #

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